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New Wineskins Convocation 2005
Comments and reflections |
A visitor
comments on the New Wineskins gathering [9-3-05]
[The New] Wineskins revolt and frighten me. Even the
name sounds threatening.
I will be no part of it. To know that they are
"evangelicals" galls me. They have a mindset, and an agenda that should
frighten even the most devoted and stalwart Presbyterian.
Esther Davis
Huntsville, Alabama
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Conservative leader says New Wineskins is on the brink of
gnostic heresy
[7-8-05]Presbyterians for Renewal
executive director Michael Walker says renewal is already under way in the
Presbyterian Church (USA), and the New
Wineskins movement, while it’s "asking all the right questions," may be
allowing the heresy of gnosticism into its statement of the basic tenets of
the Reformed faith.
Speaking at PFR' s Christian Life Conference, held July
1-4 at Montreat, he acknowledged many points of agreement with New
Wineskins, but said he is not ready to join with that group. Rather, he said
that renewal is already happening in the PCUSA, and that this is not the
time for leaving the denomination.
He sees hope for winning the war of attrition in the
denomination, and thus urged churches to continue their financial support of
PFR.
He also criticized the Presbyterian Lay Committee for its
recent publication of "Can Two Faiths Embrace One Future," which tries to
open the Old School – New School debate, which nobody is interested in
today.
He saw hope in
PFR’s
proposed action to add a sentence to G-6.0106b: "This paragraph may not
be amended prior to 2016." This would essentially impose another delay of
ten more years for any further action about the ban on ordination of glbt
Presbyterians.
Read the rest of the report in The Layman Online |
A comment on New Wineskins: it's "more of
the same"
[6-21-05]Your coverage of the New Wineskins
Movement is appreciated. This gathering reminds me of an experience I had
more than 10 years ago at a Montreat Worship and Music Conference. A group
of us in a seminar on worship began discussing the sexuality debates among
Presbyterians, when a voice from the back of the room piped up. "I'm a
United Methodist Pastor, and you're just like us. When you don't know what
else to do, you debate sexuality and restructuring the denomination."
How true! The New Wineskins Movement is more of
the same.
At the same time, the comments reported on the evangelism panel are
fascinating, because they stand at odds with the tenor of subscriptionist
theology called for by leaders of the movement. Postmoderns generally don't
give a rip about "correct theology." What they want to know and experience
is an authentic person struggling to share God's grace just like the rest of
us confused human beings. Correct theology is no remedy for what ails the
Presbyterian Church.
Word out of the Southern Baptist Convention, from prominent evangelism
expert Thom Rainer, is that for all the theological purifying that Southern
Baptists have experienced since 1979, the growth in baptisms has remained
static. Why is that? Since when is the gospel message merely a matter of
correct theology, and not equally a compelling embodiment of the life Jesus
lived and the way he related to others. Our challenge as Presbyterians is
the choice between an inward or an outward focus of our gospel message and
mission.
For the last few decades, we've found intramural church fights a much
safer place to grind out our depleted understandings of the gospel of Jesus
Christ. Who cares? The challenge to the church is the consumerist, violent,
and spirit-less society in which we find ourselves. There's a huge agenda
for mission that can unite all factions of our church family. At the same
time that we fight among ourselves, people in our culture are on a spiritual
quest. The last place they often believe they'll find a live-giving spirit
is in the church. Yes, it's true. Many people still find Jesus fascinating.
It's the church they often find boring and irrelevant. So let's turn our
attention to the challenge of speaking and living an attractive life of
faith out in the world. There's plenty of challenge to be found there, and
often it's much more interesting than the squabbles we seem to prefer inside
the institutional bubble.
Hart Edmonds
The Oasis New Church Development PCUSA
Omaha, NE
See
his earlier note about the emerging church movement.
What would you like to add?
We'd like to hear your perceptions of the conference if you were there,
or your comments.
Just send a note
to be shared here. |
| Another little comment on our coverage of
the New Wineskins convocation – one which we sincerely appreciate –
really. [6-22-05]
Dear Doug:
Excellent coverage of the New Wineskins event. I admit, I
read your site regularly scanning for bias, but you're winning me over.
Nice work.
Really.
Noel Anderson (<--of New Wineskins)
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With thanks to Rev. Anderson for his
permission to post this. He replied to our request:
"Sure--I, too, gladly stand by what I write." |
Noel K. Anderson
Executive Pastor
First Presbyterian Church
Bakersfield, CA 93301
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GA actions
ratified (or not) by the presbyteries
A number of the most important actions of the 219th
General Assembly have now been acted upon by the presbyteries,
confirming most of them as amendments to the PC(USA) Book of Order.
We provided resources to help inform the
reflection and debate, along with updates on the voting.
Our three areas of primary interest have been:
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Amendment 10-A,
which removes the current ban on
lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender persons being considered as
possible candidates for ordination as elder or ministers.
Approved! |
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Amendment 10-2,
which would add the Belhar Confession to our Book of
Confessions. Disapproved, because as an amendment
to the Book of Confessions it needed a 2/3 vote, and did not
receive that. |
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Amendment
10-1, which adopts the new Form of Government
that was approved by the Assembly. Approved. |
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Some blogs worth visiting |
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PVJ's
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Voices of Sophia blog
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After fifteen years of scholarship
and activism, Voices of Sophia presents a blog. Here, we present the
voices of feminist theologians of all stripes: scholars, clergy,
students, exiles, missionaries, workers, thinkers, artists, lovers
and devotees, from many parts of the world, all children of the God
in whose image women are made. .... This blog seeks to glorify God
through prayer, work, art, and intellectual reflection. Through
articles and ensuing discussion we hope to become an active and
thoughtful community. |
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John Harris’ Summit to
Shore blogspot
Theological and philosophical
reflections on everything between summit to shore, including
kayaking, climbing, religion, spirituality, philosophy, theology,
politics, culture, travel, The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), New
York City and the Queens neighborhood of Ridgewood by a progressive
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Witherspoon board, and is designated pastor of North Presbyterian
Church in Flushing, NY. |
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John Shuck’s Shuck and Jive
A Presbyterian minister, currently
serving as pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Elizabethton,
Tenn., blogs about spirituality, culture, religion (both organized
and disorganized), life, evolution, literature, Jesus, and
lightening up. |
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