Flags in church?

What about the Flag in Church?

Flags in church: a student reports on his research
[12-11-03]

Some time ago we posted notes in an e-mail conversation on the question of the display of U.S. flags in church sanctuaries. We recently received this interesting comment, based on empirical research, from the college student:

I found your discussion from Google as I was researching for a project on civil religion for a sociology class at Presbyterian related Centre College. From my research of actually going to churches as well as calling them, there are only two responses.

The first is that if a church regardless of denomination has a flag in it, they don't know why they do and the same is true of those churches that do not display the flag with one exception. Those churches that don't display the American Flag were really not conscious that they didn't until I asked them.

The exception is that with churches who have a very developed theology which enters prominently into the life of the church like the PCUSA and others even the Lutheran
Church Missouri Synod which is very conservative but say as a denomination that it is not a supported practice but isn't something that the powers that be dwell on.

I am an elder in my home congregation, and when I was on the Session we removed the American Flag as well as the old PCUS flag (even though it was 19 years after reunion) and moved them to Fellowship Hall, and replaced the PCUS Flag with the PCUSA flag.

From a sociological perspective, for the most part it seems that it is the denomination that has a stance on the issue, but when it comes down to actual practice, it is usually a congregational issue with not much attention paid to the issue.

Peace of Christ,
Tyler Ward
Centre College
Danville, KY

What about the Flag in Church?

a conversation on PresbyNet

Check out a visitor's helpful comment about keeping this issue in perspective. [12-5-01]

Recently in the "Witherspoon members" meeting on PresbyNet, the Rev. Darlene Little raised a question that has taken on new urgency these days: She was looking for an essay she had seen some time ago, "on the why nots [and the how-to's] of national flags in the sanctuary."

This question inspired a number of responses that seem worth sharing in this wider circle of conversation.

Barbara Kellam-Scott, a member of the Witherspoon executive board, responded quickly:

I don't know about a particular piece, but of course my own why nots center on idolatry, especially around a pretty ambiguous idol (aren't they all?). I can also, however, offer you my favorite how-to, which came from the mouth of my own dear babe, my elder son, Elder Christopher James Kellam Scott (now known as Kellam as his given name) during his service on the session of the Presbyterian Church at Franklin Lakes, NJ. He suggested we put the flag right by the door, just inside, where it could be part of our gathering in community, but most prominent as a reminder, as we left to go back into the world, that we must carry with us into that world what went on in the sanctuary.

Your WebWeaver went on a little Google search [If you haven't tried it when looking for something to help you write a sermon or find an article, you should!], which yielded an interesting assortment of views on flags in the sanctuary. Here's a sampling:

First, from three Presbyterian sources:

The Office of Theology and Worship of the PC(USA) offers a good theological look at the issue, concluding that "since we profess God as sovereign, claiming our highest allegiance, and since God's realm extends beyond the bounds of any one nation, embracing all nations, it is preferable that no national flag be displayed in a Christian place of worship." (This was the document that Darlene Little was looking for.)

The Rev. James Ayers, writing in Presbyterians Today in 1999, offered good thoughts, and briefer, in the "Q and A" section.

He says, "Whatever your view on saluting the flag, the Christian perspective insists our true citizenship is in heaven (Philippians 3:20), and our final loyalty and allegiance are due to Jesus Christ himself - not to our nations, not even to our families or ourselves (Luke 14:26)."

Last July Martha Juillerat preached a sermon at St. Luke Presbyterian Church, in Wayzata, MN, which explored some of the complex and ambiguous meanings of the U.S. flag.

And from some other traditions:

The Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) offers a critical look at the dangers of displays of the American flag in the sanctuary - and is pretty negative about the "Christian flag." It also provides details of the proper display of the flag.

For the United Methodist Church, the General Board of Discipleship prepared a document (in 1993) that seems less worried about displaying the flag, offering more practical and theological reflection. It concludes, however: "To sum it up, we in American wisely separate church and state. As American Christians, we honor the cross and we honor the flag; but we keep them separate. An American flag used in the worship of the universal church is no more appropriate than hanging a cross in a civil courtroom used by Americans of all religions."

For one Southern Baptist view:

A position paper by Bill White of the Baptist Center for Ethics doesn't beat around the bush. (Or Bush?) It begins, "I oppose the regular display of the United States flag in worship."

From the Catholic Church, a U.S. bishops' Committee on the Liturgy suggested on Sept. 26, 2001, that American flags displayed in Catholic churches should be outside the sanctuary. But they added that the ultimate decision on placement of flags rests with the local bishop, or, if he chooses, the pastors. (What, not the Session??)

Bob Dooling, a strong voice in the conservative ranks of the PC(USA), joined in with this note:

This may surprise some of you, but I am fully in agreement that national flags have no place in a Christian sanctuary. After studying the issue, we removed the American flag from our sanctuary seventeen years ago.

But on the other side, Jeff Book commented:

I'm concerned about a tone of ridicule toward persons who support having a flag in church...

....about the repeated implication that those who favor this are not as deep or as thoughtful about Christianity as are those who oppose it...

....and about the presumption that political motivations lie solely with those who favor having a flag.

Darlene Little responded:

I see no need for outside organizations to dictate what the church has or does not have in the sanctuary. If after study and consideration the session wishes to have them in the sanctuary that's one thing. But if the only reason is to show support for "my country right or wrong" then the flag has no place in the sanctuary.

Jeff Book answered her thus:

What outside organization is attempting to dictate what the church has in the sanctuary?

I've seen flags in sanctuaries my whole life, and I have never received them as messages of "my country right or wrong."

I have received them as signs of respect and affection for the nation and its people, and as reminders that we are called to be good citizens of our country.

Witherspoon president Jane Hanna joined in, basing her thoughts on the Theology and Worship paper:

On the subject of flags in the sanctuary: What I have found most helpful as a guide has been what the Office of Theology and Worship has written about this subject in the past. Look at http://www.pcusa.org/theologyandworship/worship/faq-space.htm#1

Historically and symbolically neither of the flags would seem to be of great importance. What people as individuals read into these symbols is something else, but according to this website, theologically it may be more correct to remove all flags from the sanctuary itself. Personally I don't think too many people pay any attention to either of the flags. Perhaps by removing them I'd learn differently.

Darlene Little responded to Jeff Book:

The original question came from me, dealing with an individual congregation and commenting based on the discussion within that congregation.

Symbols take on a life of their own. I wish to have the discussion on flags in the sanctuary based on something other than the Boy Scouts think it should happen because of what's going on in the world and to show our support of the actions of the President.

I realize this is a tender subject for you and others--in fact for all of us. It need not polarize us, however, there are a variety of viewpoints in the pews and in the pulpits. Decisions should not be knee jerk reactions.

A final thought from your WebWeaver:

It's been reassuring to see that we Presbyterians can differ and still be civil, about an issue which is obviously a very sensitive one for many people these days.

A visitor urges us to keep this question in perspective

You know, Aztec [NM] Presbyterian has had a US flag in there for as long as anyone can remember. We don't worship it, it is just there as a symbol of many people's respect for our country. Not all like it there, but there are more important things to worry about. Budgets, caring for the sick and the elderly, caring for each other, feeding those in need, speaking the word, worshiping God, and loving our neighbors as our selves. You know - the stuff Jesus called on us to worry about and the practical stuff we have to worry about.

Yeah, this is just what we need - another flash point. Another tempest in a teapot to soak up our energies so that we ignore the relevant issues. You know - like peace, justice, mission, outreach, and equity.

Seems to me that you are doing a great disservice to God by worrying about such petty issues. Seems to me you are just handing ammunition to Witherspoon's critics by even wasting space on such an emotional issue. It is a battle that, if fought, will cause you more harm than good.

Liberals care about our country and yes, many of us care about the flag. A very wise person once told me to choose my battles well. To fight only those that are worthy. This tempest in a teapot that Witherspoon raises is a battle best left alone.

joe sayre

Your WebWeaver responded:

Dear Joe -- Thanks for these thoughtful comments about flags.

I appreciate the way you put this flag question in perspective. My only addition would be to point out that Witherspoon didn't raise this question -- it came from someone in the Witherspoon meeting on PresbyNet, and I thought we should respond to it.

And if you look at some of the sites mentioned there, you'll see that lots of other folks -- right, left, and center -- have been concerned about the same question.

Still, I DO agree with your basic point: there are more important things to be doing!

doug king

Now it's your turn!

You've heard what others have to say. What would you like to contribute to this exchange of thoughts and suggestions?

Please send a note!

And maybe this will encourage you to join in this and other conversations on PresbyNet!

Go to the PC(USA) web site for information and help.

More on flags in church:
[2-21-07]

We appreciate the fact that people are still offering helpful comments on this issue!

The latest comes from Tim Musser, of Cleveland, Ohio, who says, "Here is the best piece I’ve ever seen on the issue - and not just for Catholics but all Christians." He sends a link to an essay by the Rev. Emmanuel Charles McCarthy, with the interesting title, "Sacerdotal Flagism: Should the Flag Be Permanently Displayed in Church Sanctuaries Or Other Explicitly Christian Environments?" [This four-page essay is in PDF format.]

He opens with Jesus’ words: "My house will be called a house of prayer for all peoples." (Mark 11:17) He builds his argument against the display of the American flag (or that of any other nation) on the Catholic Church’s traditional claim to be a truly universal church, which means it must never identify itself with any single nation.

He writes: "The flag is a sign of the temporal, the totally passing, the utterly perishable. The state is not an object of redemption in the New Testament. Its existence is as fleeting as a cloud, here today, extinct tomorrow." Good grief, is he talking about the US of A??

If you have thoughts or resources to share,
please send a note!

On church flags – a little more history [1-2-07]

There is some history to the flags in churches. One does not typically find national flags in churches overseas. In the United States the practice seems to have developed during the Taft administration when the world was heading toward WWI. Franklin Roosevelt issued a statement requesting churches to have the flag placed in churches as we entered WWII. My memory is that this was done reluctantly and at the advice of and pressure of Secretary of War Stimson. The cross on the Christian flag is one inch taller than the eagle on the American flag.

John Rauhut

See the earlier discussion from about 3 years ago >>

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feel free!

Just send a note to be posted here.