The voting in Palisades Presbytery

1/29/02 [posted here 1-30-02]

As expected by most, the Presbytery of the Palisades tonight voted 59/33/1 to ratify Amendment 01-A. We did not take the full hour allotted for debate, having run out of speakers against the motion. The debate was calm and orderly once we agreed to allow all elders present the privilege of the floor, whether or not they were commissioners with vote.

There was again this year much powerful witness in support of the amendment from the parents and one widow of GLBT folk. One speaker against the motion said his sister had come out this year and (somewhat unclearly) he was grateful for the guidance of his church in dealing with that news.

Opponents spoke of general morality and the chance that without G-6.0106b our constitution would grant license in "a world awash in infidelity and nonchastity." Interestingly, another of the reliable opponents said that if it were only about striking b, she might consider an amendment, but the problem here was that it went all the way back to the Definitive Guidance and suggested local option, and she drew parallels to the ordination of women. She did not, however, clearly make the "slippery slope to a requirement" argument.

The main argument in support that didn't get made was that in its 5 years G-6.0106b has been applied only to GLBT persons, not to other moral issues. But a relative newcomer to the presbytery, Rev. Mike Carrier of First Presbyterian Church, Ramsey, did boldly make the argument that b was from the start bad polity, misrepresenting our understanding of the Confessions, and deflecting us from discipleship and making disciples. The person with the lesbian sister, who had spoken against Amendment A, countered that it was "Biblical polity."

The "woman caught in adultery" was cited by both sides. So was Jesus' teaching about divorce, although the person opposing "A" who cited the latter endorsed "strictness" because "the growing churches are the strict ones" and he "wants to be part of a growing church."

We have recently been encouraged to seek a third way through this dilemma -- in fact, several different third ways. But there really is no third way here.

We either trust each other in sessions and this presbytery to voice God's call, or we do not.

We either trust God's voice of grace, or we continue to let our discernment be driven by fear.

We were asked, in considering another Amendment A, to give G-6.0106b a chance, to see how it works. We have given it that chance. We have seen that it works to divide the church and to damage our life together.

GA actions ratified (or not) by  the presbyteries   

A number of the most important actions of the 219^th General Assembly have now been acted upon by the presbyteries, confirming most of them as amendments to the PC(USA) Book of Order.

We provided resources to help inform the reflection and debate, along with updates on the voting.

Our three areas of primary interest have been:

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PVJ's Facebook page

Mitch Trigger, PVJ's Secretary/Communicator, has created a Facebook page where Witherspoon members and others can gather to exchange news and views. Mitch and a few others have posted bits of news, both personal and organizational. But there’s room for more!

Voices of Sophia blog

Heather Reichgott, who has created this new blog for Voices of Sophia, introduces it:

John Harris’ Summit to Shore blogspot

John Shuck’s Shuck and Jive

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