Presbyterian Voices for Justice 

NOTE:  This site is slowly being retired. 
Click here
for our new official website: pv4j.org

Welcome to news and networking for progressive Presbyterians 

Home page Marriage Equality Global & Social concerns    
News of the PC(USA) Immigrant rights Israel & Palestine
U S Politics, 2010-11 Inclusive ordination Wars in Iraq & Afghanistan
Occupy Wall Street The Economic Crisis Other churches, other faiths
    About us         Join us! Health Care Reform Archive
Just for fun Confronting torture Notes from your WebWeaver

What's Where

Our reports about the 219th General Assembly, July 2010

ABOUT US

The Winter 2011 issue of
Network News
is posted here
- in Adobe PDF format.

Click here for earlier issues
Adobe PDF  Click here to download (free!) Adobe Reader software to view this and all PDF files.

News of Presbyterian Voices for Justice
How to join us

CONNECTIONS

Coming events calendar 

Do you want to announce an event?
Please send a note!
Food for the spirit
Book notes

Go to  Amazon.com

LINKS

NEWS of the Presbyterian Church

Got news??
Send us a note!
Social and global concerns
The U.S. political scene, 2010-11
The Middle East conflict
Uprising in Egypt
The economic crisis
Health care reform
Working for inclusive ordination
Peacemaking & international concerns
The Wars in Iraq & Afghanistan
Israel, Palestine, and Gaza
U. S. Politics
Election 2008
Economic justice
Fair Food Campaign
Labor rights
Women's Concerns
Sexual justice
Marriage Equality
Caring for the environment
Immigrant rights
Racial concerns
Church & State
The death penalty
The media
OTHER CHURCHES, OTHER FAITHS
Do you want regular e-mail updates when stories are added to our web site?
Just send a note!
The WebWeaver's Space
ARCHIVES
JUST FOR FUN
Want books?
Search Now:

 

Talking about the Trinity

Talking about the Trinity

[3-4-02]

Shawn Coons, a Candidate for Ministry under care of the Presbytery of East Iowa, recently posted this note in the WITHERSPOON MEMBERS meeting on PresbyNet, since it had not yet been published by Presbyterian Outlook, to which it was originally sent as a response to a Guest Viewpoint" essay on our language about the Trinity, by the Rev. James C. Goodloe IV. Her letter now is on the Outlook web site.

We are glad to share it here as a contribution to the continuing efforts that we must make to deal responsively with "how we talk about God."

~~~~~~~~~

In his Guest Viewpoint "On the Trinity," Rev. James C. Goodloe IV seems to conclude that using any language to address God other than language Jesus used "reveals a dangerous arrogance." One passage of scripture he uses to support this assertion is Matthew 6:9, where Jesus instructs the disciples to pray. Given his stance I assume that Rev. Goodloe has always used in worship the Lord's Prayer exactly as it is recorded in Matthew 6:9-13, and not the more widely-used and traditional version.

I assume this because, as I understand Rev. Goodloe's reasoning, the confessions and the church have shown some of this "dangerous arrogance" in the presumption that they know how to pray to God better than Jesus. This arrogance is revealed in the addition of the phrases "who art in heaven" and "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever." Jesus did not use these two phrases and so to use them must be a "departure from the biblical witness."

Or maybe Jesus did not come to set down an exhaustive and prescriptive list of what is orthodox language for all time. I believe that Jesus came, among other reasons, to give us the foundation of our faith, but our faith is nothing if we do not build upon that foundation. Much like the early church expanded the Lord's Prayer, I think it is acceptable, if not our call, to expand in other areas of faith, including our language about God.

What language do we use to describe God? Rev. Goodloe is correct when he writes that Jesus never used "Creator, Sustainer and Redeemer," to refer to the Trinity. Then again Jesus never used the word "Trinity," yet we use that word in our worship and our liturgical year regularly. This is one example of expanding our language about God.

Rev. Goodloe reasons that to use "Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer" to the exclusion of other Trinitarian language is unbiblical and heretical. I think a more accurate conclusion is that to use any one description of God to the exclusion of other descriptions is the real danger to the church.

All language about God is incomplete and insufficient. How can we use the finite to completely describe the infinite? To emphasize one aspect of God, for example, God as Creator, to the exclusion of others is incomplete. Likewise it would be just as wrong to only use language that represents God as masculine, when the Bible and our confessions offer a more complete witness (Matt. 23:37, Isa. 46:3, BoC 10.3).

Rev. Goodloe says that using "'Creator, Sustainer and Redeemer' in the place of 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit' is not a matter of alternative but acceptable language," and I agree, at least in part. It is not a matter of alternative language; instead it is a matter of additional language. The use of this functional language no more leads to modalism than use of the traditional language inevitably leads to sexism.

The words we use to address God are not important simply because Jesus used them, they are important because of the meaning behind them. We stand in a tradition that is called to continually restate and re-express the core of our beliefs, and while we should not abandon the normative language of the church, neither should we abandon the attempt to describe a God who will not be confined to any one expression.

 

Shawn Coons
Candidate for Ministry under care of the Presbytery of East Iowa
Currently working at Bon Air Presbyterian Church in Richmond, VA

 

 
 

If you like what you find here,
we hope you'll help us keep Voices for Justice going ... and growing!

Please consider making a special contribution -- large or small -- to help us continue and improve this service.

Click here to send a gift online, using your credit card, through PayPal.

Or send your check, made out to "Presbyterian Voices for Justice" and marked "web site," to our PVJ Treasurer:

Darcy Hawk
4007 Gibsonia Road
Gibsonia, PA  15044-8312

 

Some blogs worth visiting

PVJ's Facebook page

Mitch Trigger, PVJ's Secretary/Communicator, has created a Facebook page where Witherspoon members and others can gather to exchange news and views. Mitch and a few others have posted bits of news, both personal and organizational. But there’s room for more!

You can post your own news and views, or initiate a conversation about a topic of interest to you.

 

Voices of Sophia blog

Heather Reichgott, who has created this new blog for Voices of Sophia, introduces it:

After fifteen years of scholarship and activism, Voices of Sophia presents a blog. Here, we present the voices of feminist theologians of all stripes: scholars, clergy, students, exiles, missionaries, workers, thinkers, artists, lovers and devotees, from many parts of the world, all children of the God in whose image women are made. .... This blog seeks to glorify God through prayer, work, art, and intellectual reflection. Through articles and ensuing discussion we hope to become an active and thoughtful community.

 

John Harris’ Summit to Shore blogspot

Theological and philosophical reflections on everything between summit to shore, including kayaking, climbing, religion, spirituality, philosophy, theology, politics, culture, travel, The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), New York City and the Queens neighborhood of Ridgewood by a progressive New York City Presbyterian Pastor. John is a former member of the Witherspoon board, and is designated pastor of North Presbyterian Church in Flushing, NY.

 

John Shuck’s Shuck and Jive

A Presbyterian minister, currently serving as pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Elizabethton, Tenn., blogs about spirituality, culture, religion (both organized and disorganized), life, evolution, literature, Jesus, and lightening up.

 

Got more blogs to recommend?

Please send a note, and we'll see what we can do!

 

To top

© 2012 by Presbyterian Voices for Justice.  All material on this site is the responsibility of the WebWeaver unless other sources are acknowledged.  Unless otherwise noted, material on this site may be copied for personal use and sharing in small groups.  For permission to reproduce material for wider publication, please contact the WebWeaver, Doug King.  Any material reached by links on this site is outside the control and responsibility of the WebWeaver and Presbyterian Voices for Justice.  Questions or comments?  Please send a note!